My favorite stories with clients are the ones where after a couple meetings they say, " Oh my gosh, Kristen, I finally have hope. I finally feel like I have a future here. I know that everything that I'm doing is working towards something." And we know that the beauty of IBC is that the and asset, right? There's a whole book on that, but how you can use your cash in other ways while it continues to grow. So for me, it's that, like helping people realize that, and they realize that, "Oh my gosh, I'm, even while I'm buying my cars or even while I'm paying for my kids' education, I'm still saving for retirement, and I'm not even trying, because I'm doing these things simultaneously." today we have, special guest. this is, a person that I met at the, 2026 Think Tank in, Birmingham, Alabama. she is also an authorized IBC practitioner, a very successful gal, building her practice. And also, she has been working, alongside George in some aspects. So I want to welcome Kristen. Kristen, Welcome to the podcast. Happy to be here So Kristen, What it means to be an IBC practitioner, an infinite banking concept practitioner. tell us a bit about, you know, who you are, how, how do you become an IBC practitioner? Tell us a bit about your story. I was always in the realm of business finance so I was a bookkeeper right out of high school I worked as a bookkeeper for a grocery store and then eventually I branched out and started doing bookkeeping on the side While I was homeschooling my kids and stayed home with my kids I always had my finger on that pulse in the business world I never really thought too much about the banking system I just like most of us that's just where you're supposed to put your money You're supposed to save in RSPs You're supposed to put your money in the bank and and it's safe and invest it with them wasn't until COVID and during the trucker convoy that I really realized how vulnerable our money was I was always someone who thought outside the box and it shocked even me that I had never thought about any kind of alternatives to putting our money in the bank And when I saw people's bank accounts getting frozen I know people whose accounts were frozen over $20 And that scared me because not just from the freezing standpoint but also the privacy my address was leaked on the internet for people to see a list of people who had donated to the convoy and so that just made me really start looking for other solutions I had heard of Infinite Banking before I had heard of something with life insurance and to be honest I always thought it was a scam I had picture in my mind of the sleazy life insurance guy that was just trying to separate you and your money We've all been there and it wasn't until that point that everything kind of tipped for me and I realized oh maybe there's something to this And so I did a lot of research I was a client before I got licensed and once I saw how good it was I just wanted to shout it from the rooftops So I switched careers at that point I was very successful as a project manager for a variety of companies and I was pretty misaligned with them at the time I knew I wanted to make a change and this was just a natural progression for me So I got licensed and I have not turned back It's been fantastic and I'm so passionate about sharing this with as many people as I can because I've never met anyone that it couldn't help a lot of people that aren't a good fit but infinite banking could help just about everybody Yeah that's I think just a little bit of background too for so the Nelson Nash Institute NNI is the is the nonprofit organization that provides the authorization that we're talking about So Nelson Nash wrote the book you can see it behind all of us Becoming your own Banker So he was the pioneer He wrote the book he created the concept and The group that he helped create into the Nelson Nash Institute So they started authorizing practitioners back in 20 12 20 13 I was fortunate to be one of the very first in Canada to join the program and become authorized So The purpose behind it was to make sure that all of us who are talking about and teaching the concept are doing it from the same place and are doing it from the right place and saying the right things And we don't want to be misleading We want to be accurate and truthful and never be misleading So that is the whole purpose behind the program and and So we go through training we go through mentorship We're all licensed insurance agents that we have to be licensed to begin with and the whole purpose behind it is so that we're all saying the same thing and saying it the right way So that's ultimately the purpose behind it And as Kristen said she became a client first And then realized how good it was got licensed and is now a practitioner teaching the concept Well the exact same thing happened to me So I started off being a client I I accidentally discovered the concept through through a real estate networking event that I attended I heard about this becoming your own banker it it piqued my interest enough so that I Went on to learn more attended a seminar did my research my wife and I and realized that this is too good not to share So I think we're all kind of in the same boat right So we once we discover it you can't go back you learn it you can't unlearn it once you realize how good it is you can't keep it quiet So that's that's what this is all about And then the practitioner course is about all of us singing from the same sheet just doing it all correctly So that's a little bit of of background there and it's an i I love to hear the stories of people's journeys Kristen's journey is awesome and I've been a you know fortunate to be a part of her journey and Jose why don't you tell us about your journey Well, before I go into my journey, I think, the audience might be thinking, okay, well, how were your paths crossed? Like, George, how do you meet Chris and, at what point? So I was working in an organization an agency Kristen became a client of One of my colleagues I'll let her tell the story of how she discovered our agency and her advisor But we were working together and as she became a client then she got licensed and she became an advisor It was my job in that company to train The advisors I was the trainer I was the mentor for all the advisors across the country that's how I initially met Kristen But I'll let Kristen tell her side of that So so I actually found the practitioner that set me up through the Nelson Nash website so through the infinite banking.org website and you can find a practitioner there had it wasn't the first person that I had contacted It's interesting because the first person I contacted wouldn't gimme the time of day I sent him an email and he basically Sent me a cut and paste response please You know read this PDF book that I wrote and there was never another follow up I was standing there like please take my money I have this cash in my hand that I would like you to put in a policy and he never got back to me so I met Matt was his name So I I ended up finding Matt through the practitioner website as well and that's how I got introduced to to everyone else at this agency And it's interesting because he lived about five minutes away from me at the time and so we really kind of you know connected over that as well So interesting. for those of you guys listening, you can find Kristin on Instagram, Kristin dot peers. Her company also called Abandoned on Life Wealth Solutions. So if you guys are, curious about it, you can check out Instagram, you're gonna find her there. She's very active. But, you know, there's a couple of things that you mentioned Christian, about, what was going on in the world and all the events happening here in Canada. And by the way, we have our, podcast episode number one. It's about that, like we speak about, the, de bank Canadians and, and how the banks, they abuse the power that we have given them. and it will even in conjunction with the government to lock someone else's, funds just because, they disagree With something. So it's just like, it sets a dangerous precedent. So we wanted to bring awareness of that, and that's why we, we have that episode number one. But you also mentioned, Kristin, that, initially you thought, that this was a scam. How did you manage to go past that initial. Thought.'cause a lot of people just stop there. not everyone goes past that. And even more so, you ended up joining the scammers. So please, talk a bit more about how that happened. So I didn't just call up a life insurance agent and say Hey hey set me up with infinite banking I did so much research on my own that by the time I did sit down with someone I knew exactly what I wanted I knew that I wanted to participate in whole life policy I knew what that meant I knew what it looked like I had seen examples of illustrations I had probably watched hundreds of hours of YouTube videos at that point and not just from one person And I think that's important too is the variety of seeing different points of view and seeing you know cause there's so much out there but there's you know there's a lot of misinformation but there's a lot of truth too So I I just had to consume a lot until I found you know the commonalities between the things that were working And interestingly I didn't find the Nelson Nash Institute until later on Yeah, we were just at Think Tank and one of the messages that was. given to us, as a direction, it was like, Hey, we need to be more vocal. There has to be more of us on social media of authorized IBC practitioners because, we have that responsibility. and, there's a lot of loud voices out there, that people don't know that they're. Mixing truth with half truths and, spewing misinformation about the concept. and so very important, for us to keep this voice going. And another reason for this podcast, it's also that. So yeah, kudos to you for, having that disposition. Like, no, not many people have that. but you're definitely a researcher. And I'm also a researcher, right? And because I'm a researcher. That's how I found the infinite banking concept. I was just, in my case, fed up with taxation, which, you know, I guess a lot of our listeners are also. But, I was fed up with that, the situation going on at that point in my life. that was a bit more than three years ago. And just doing research and trying to find solutions I came to the realization that I didn't know, anything about finances. I think I thought I knew, but I really didn't have an idea. And when, as an immigrant in Canada, not just about working, and thinking everything is going to be figured out. No, it's more than that, right? it's working, but you need to work intelligently. And that comes through understanding, how. Finances work in North America. So I just started doing research. I came across a specific, strategy. It's called the Smith Maneuver here in Canada. you know, I jumped into this call with this guy Smith Maneuver certified, and he started talking about IBC. He thought that I was there for IBC. So there were some sort of, miscommunication, and I saw the become your own banker book that, if you are watching us on YouTube, you can see that on your screen. and I was attracted by those. letters saying banker and trying to figure out, okay, become your own banker. So after that call, I was annoyed about the fact that, I wanted to talk about Smith and he was talking about IBC, I went and checked IBC and it's like the rabbit hole open and I went deep into it. Hundreds of videos. I'm not kidding. It's probably. Close to a hundred videos that I watched, for like three months straight. And after that I was like, how come I haven't heard about this before? And we hear that from our clients all the time. how come no one's talking about this? how come I didn't know anything about this? How come not more people are doing this? we all can talk about the perceived reasons for that. Like I have my hypothesis about why, but I'm sure you know, if I open the mic for that, everyone is going to have a different opinion on why that happens. And so, you know. I read the book, I read the how privatized banking really works. The case for IBC. I read another one that's called, confessions from a CPA. He also talks about infinite banking concept. I read a couple of more books. I, I read Child Millionaire. From our friend George here, which you can also see that book in the back. He's one of the authors of that book. So, you know, after reading all that, I knew that I had to do something about it. And so I contacted, one agency in the US and they directed me to. one agent in Canada who is now my mentor, he's not on this call, but he introduced me to the world IBC, just like, you know, pretty much like what happened to you Kristen, with George and now here I am. So, yeah, I didn't know anything about the Nelson National Institute, but you know, after. reading the book and after reading the books, like I knew that was, the place I wanted to go to the source. I was hungry for the truth. I was hungry for a change. I was already willing to rethink my thinking, which is what Nelson always said. You had to be willing to rethink your thinking. And, the biggest challenge and the biggest blocker for IBC is in your own mind, is between your ears every time. Well you know you guys you both brought up the fact that you've done a lot of research and there's a lot of information out there Some of it good some of it not so good but there's a ton in the US right So I would suggest that most of those videos you guys watch where you US based So I just want to make sure that Canadians know that this concept works Equally if not better here in Canada there is more and more Canadian content all the time there's a lot of good information out there right So you have to sift through the good and the bad and find what's good and then find who you can connect with and then learn and change your way of thinking So Kristen talk a little bit about Since you got licensed since you've become a practitioner how's that journey going And maybe talk a little bit about some of your connections with clients and people and how they are discovering this concept with your guidance so the agency that we started with because this agency that George and I were with almost within a week of me getting my licenses and actually being able to put business through the agency closed And so I was thrown into the world of being an independent practitioner and that alone having to figure out all the backend things that you take for granted when you're with an agency I had to figure out all of that on my own so it was slow that first I'll say the first year Was pretty slow going I had clients that kind of trickled in people that I knew in real life There were some people that I had met online but it kind of trickled I would say so that was year one year two it's just gone through the roof like in the last I'll say 12 months A little bit more than that It's just gone through the roof I've had so much success and so many good connections with people and I think that what us together is when you have those connections with people and you're able to say look I see myself in you I love working with the family market because I see myself there and they see themselves in my success So when I say I understand what it feels like to have your power turned off cause you couldn't pay the bill They see that right And they also see that I'm really successful Now I've and not because I'm an insurance agent but because I've done different things in my life with money that's really encouraging for both of us My favorite stories with clients are the ones where a couple meetings they say oh my gosh Kristen I finally have hope I finally feel like I have a future here I know that everything that I'm doing is working towards something and we know that the beauty of IBC is that the and asset right There's a whole book on that but how you can use your cash in other ways while it continues to grow So for me it's that like helping people realize that and they realize that oh my gosh I'm even while I'm buying my cars or even while I'm paying for my kids education I'm still saving for retirement and I'm not even trying because I'm doing these things simultaneously So that's my favorite talking with clients some of the ways that we've used it like I work with a lot of entrepreneurs and you both I'd love to hear but you both probably I would guess have the same kind of client base where entrepreneurs people that are maybe real estate investors they're just drawn to this lifestyle of IBC they understand how money flows and they understand how it works And so I love having conversations with these business owners because then we get really creative about how they can use their cash I had a conversation a couple weeks ago with and he's a personal trainer and he also sells gym equip And I said you know he sets up gyms in people's houses so like home gyms And I said okay what if you had this cash sitting in your policy and you were able to offer your clients financing on their gyms how much better could your business look how many more people could you help if you were able to offer that financing And how much better would it be for your business if you were making a couple bucks on the interest that you're charging these clients So just that kind of curiosity and that kind of ingenuity I guess working with people It's amazing once you start using your imagination how much more you use these policies for I honestly believe Christian, that's priceless. That's the biggest part of the value proposition that we bring, as IBC practitioners and as professionals in finance. the reality is that they're not getting that out there. They're not getting those exercises and creativity, they're not getting that, energy that we pour into this. that really makes a difference. and you mentioned hope, how would you say that IBC brings hope? So for the clients that are saying this it's because they didn't feel like they were getting ahead financially They felt like everything they were doing was just to get through today Just have to you know I have this emergency that came up just totally obliviated my savings and now I'm starting over So many people come to me with that same problem and it we're all in the same boat where all it takes is one thing for us We had a catastrophic flood where our basement flooded right to the ceiling We had water coming through our back door and it was like $40,000 in damages that we were going to have to fix And insurance wouldn't cover most of it but everybody has those kind of experiences where it it just takes one event So when we can look at it and we can show them the long-term effects of yes you can save your money here still have access to it when you need it for these things Maybe it's a new car maybe it's it's a flood repair whatever it is and you still are saving for retirement that makes all the difference in the world Because once they have that you know that retirement that's looming over them that everybody's so afraid of that we're not gonna have enough money later on Once you can eliminate that noise then you can really feel like you can live And that's so important, Kristin, that component of hope, because I was just reading, I read a headline this morning. It says, 50% of Canadians are living paycheck to paycheck right now, and. It might even be higher than that but yeah Right. for sure And then, how are they even thinking about retirement? Like they're trying to figure out how they're gonna be able to survive the next week. And so it's very important, even more so now for us in 2026 to bring this. financial truth forth, it's exactly like Nelson used to say, like, it's the financial truth and that's why we bring in forth. so it's a huge responsibility, but also, a great honor to be able to be in a position to do so. Kristyn, what would you say is the biggest differentiators between the family and the entrepreneur? model and, how does IBC speaks to each one of them specifically. So for families generally we're looking at just covering things like kids education and buying cars and maybe vacations like your not day-to-day expenses but things that are part of your normal life we're looking at an entrepreneur that's when we can talk a little bit more early on right We can talk more about ways you can invest your money in other things Families get there too by nature that's how your policies are going to progress Eventually you're going to have Too much money in your policies where you're gonna need to do something else with it But as entrepreneurs they're already thinking in that way of you know what I have money sitting in my business that I don't know how to put it to good use and I don't know how to get around paying too much tax on it And we can help in those kind of areas too one of the things that came to mind listening to you Kristen is I think it's important for people to understand so we are infinite banking concept authorized practitioners so we teach the concept but more importantly we live the concept So all of us started off as clients first and then became practitioners and then began teaching And we had mentors to help us learn So I was lucky enough and fortunate enough to actually be mentored directly from Nelson which was amazing So we keep passing on that information through the mentorship program through living it ourselves we have our own personal experiences that we can share with our clients and we know that it works because we're doing it So my family we have 15 policies but it starts with one it starts with two and then over time it can grow and grow and grow to the point where you want to be the banker There's a great story that Nelson always taught So Nelson was a life insurance agent He came up with the concept and of course he was trying to teach it to people while he met a lawyer in Birmingham the lawyer refused to accept what Nelson was trying to teach him He just had the arrival syndrome knew better He wasn't gonna listen to Nelson and Nelson said okay that's fine Well it turns out this lawyer decided he wanted to finance an airplane Where did he get his financing from Nelson Nash So Nelson Nash used his banking system to become the banker help this lawyer finance his airplane So instead of the guy taking it on and becoming his own banker He was happy to let Nelson be his banker and pay him interest and principle instead Nelson was happy to take his money his principle and interest payments cause guess what he did He went and got another policy He just perpetuated the whole thing Nelson had 49 policies at one point between his wife Mary and his kids and his grandkids and then eventually great-grandkids So it becomes enormous becomes a family venture and we pass this on to the next generation and so on and so on But initially we're practicing it ourselves and then we're helping others to understand it So we all have that same experience and that is where we all come from So we practice what we teach which I think is extremely important as well And that's oftentimes, I practicing what we preach is oftentimes a concept that it's so foreign to other advisors. it's not uncommon to see advisors selling financial, products that they don't even own. which I find is, it's just funny to see. so if you have a mutual fund with a bank you go in you ask your advisor if they own those same mutual funds see what they say That's a nice exercise. em to you but they won't buy them themselves George, you mentioned some minutes ago how all the bad information out there regarding IBC, for those listening right now, you might be thinking, okay, well how do I identify what is actually the bad from the good? If you could gimme, three to five points to quickly identify, because from the outside everything looks the same and a lot of that looks really appealing. Like they have huge productions, very nice videos and stuff and eBooks and, awesome pipelines and funnels. Like how do we identify, how do we, differentiate the wheat from the shaft here? So I think initially Generally speaking in society we are very hung up on rates right So we get fixated on rates cause that's all we know and that's all we've been ever taught And we feel like that's the most important thing So a lot of people who are naysayers regarding whole life insurance and this concept want to compare it to an investment So infinite banking and participating whole life insurance is not an investment of all And you cannot compare apples to apples if you compare it directly with with an investment cause there's way more to the par whole life than than the rate of return So I think that's one thing So you wanna find people that can look past the rates and actually look at the dollars The volume of dollars and how we add velocity to that volume just like the banks do cause ultimately what we're doing is we're copying what banks do we want to be the banker We just need to be on the right side of that coin right We have to be the bank owner We have to be the banker So then now we have control We make the rules we we we can dictate what's happening So we gotta get past rates first of all So if anyone is fixated on rates I would question that Anyone who says oh I can do better over here Well potentially you could but do you really understand this concept and do you really understand this product this vehicle that we use to implement the concept I'll I'll I'll throw a name out there Dave Ramsey So he's one of the biggest opponents sorry opponents to this concept and to whole life but does he really understand it I think if he does really understand it then he's misleading people because he he says things that are untrue and a lot of people are out there saying things that are untrue or partially true So when you do your research you have to find people that are telling the truth the whole truth and find people that you can identify with So Kristen brought that up I'm able to identify with my clients They're able to identify with me we grow a relationship and we we help each other and we learn from each other So I think that's important Don't just take things at face value and don't get fixated on rates And make sure you understand what whole life really is before you make it a choice or a decision You guys feel free to to jump on there and add some add some more things I can add one thing to that too I mean I've I've been a strong proponent of it but if anyone is trying to sell you infinite banking I'll say in air quotes that is not whole life participating Go in the other direction because this person doesn't know what they're talking about I've seen so many people that were sold on this infinite banking concept that red flag number one is they're not using the words infinite banking because that is a trademark term if they're using some kind of other terminology around that Then they probably aren't an authorized practitioner They're probably not properly trained in it and they might have some misinformation themselves I'm not saying these are bad people I'm they're just poorly informed But so anyone that's selling it especially universal life it's not gonna work We've looked at many many policies George and I have done this ourselves Looked at many policies and even the ones that aren't the majority of of universal life is going to if you ever stop funding into it it's going to collapse by nature whole life insurance that's participating it can't happen But with universal life you can lose money very early on You get locked in really early on because there's really steep surrender fees So you're stuck for the first like 10 years after that point then you've basically lost your money if you cancel them So it kind of is a catch 22 I would say anybody that's selling universal life under the the pretense of infinite banking is probably not someone who knows what they're talking about Yeah great point and in the US they call it a lot of people are using IUL Indexed universal life they promote IBC using that We don't have that in Canada but absolutely if someone is trying to get you to buy a universal life insurance policy under the guise of infinite banking you definitely need to run away Yeah, when, when, when, and when. That's brought up by, in my conversations by my clients. like I tell them, look. Policy that's not dividend paying, participating whole life. It's introducing risk to your personal banking system, which is something that you don't want to do. So the whole, one of the big reasons to become your own banker, it's also through those risk. A huge risk by doing so. and you know, I, I, we, one can, could even argue that some of those products, which are called, still called insurance, might not even qualify to the word insurance because of the risk that they introduce. Right. But that's just my personal opinion anyhow. It has been an awesome conversation. Thank you everybody for, tuning in. any last, thoughts from Kristen or George? I would just like to say circling back to the NNI and why it's important to use an authorized practitioner I know George you've been to lots of things you weren't at the most Doesn't where Jose and I met my impression this was the first one that I went to was this is a room full of people that are not competing with each other Everyone is on the same page Everyone there is trying to help each other out the people that have been going for 20 plus years are just as interested if not more in the new people and trying to help them build their businesses and really get more clear on the concept and help their understanding because we all have that same mission Of just honoring Nelson and honoring the system in its most basic level Absolutely. Well, and the mission also to build a 10%. Right, and the 10% is we need to get 10% of North Americans to adopt this concept. And so there's no room for competition if that's our goal. so my 2 cents, George, anything you want to add? I think that's a great point that Kristen makes When you're doing your research one way to avoid being misinformed is to find an authorized practitioner that works with the Nelson Nash Institute if you find that person keep searching Until you do When you find that person you will know that they have the correct training they come from the right place and they want to do what's best for you You the client we all have the objective of growing our community so that we can get to that tipping point of 10 then this becomes the norm Instead of the exception so that we all have that same objective and that same goal and we all help each other achieve that do your research Find someone that's authorized find someone that is doing this in their lives right If they're not practicing that should be a red flag right there that's what I would say So thank you so much Kristen and George, and for you there listening. Thank you for your time and I'll see you all on the next episode. Thank you.